Reflection, Chickens, and a Risk Management Success Story

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Featuring Matt Campbell, CIC

Matt works as a client advisor for large business accounts in our Burlington office. He will be celebrating 14 years with Hickok & Boardman in August of 2022. In this episode, he speaks with us about his journey into the insurance world and how, despite a challenging learning curve in beginning a career, the pay-offs are well worth it. Listen as he breaks down the importance of our safety & risk management value added services through a unique success story!

Ryan (Host): Welcome to Got You Covered, presented by Hickok and Boardman Insurance Group, the podcast where we unpack the countless ways in which insurance affects our lives and so you can properly manage your unique risk.

Ryan: Welcome everybody to another episode of “Got You Covered” presented by Hickok & Boardman Insurance Group. This is Ryan Lee, host of the show, client advisor with the firm, welcome back! Hope you had a great holiday season, and everyone is staying safe and healthy out there. Today we are talking about… we’re talkin’ about the insurance industry in general, and what it’s like getting into it as a sales professional. And also, kind of duck-tailing that, a conversation about our firm in particular and the risk management services we have. And some of the advantages that they’ve presented for clients of ours.

And so, my guest is Matt Campbell. He’s a Vice President with our firm, a client advisor, holds his CIC designation, and in August he’ll have been with the firm for 14 years. And this past year, he just crushed it. And broke the record for our firm for new business. So, welcome to podcast, Matt.

Matt: Thanks Ryan. Appreciate the invite to be on here and look forward to chatting about the insurance industry.

Ryan:  Oh, yeah, it’s great to have you. And you were my mentor early on when I first joined, so, you’ve definitely taught me a lot, and continue to teach me a lot, so I’m looking forward to this conversation. But, for the listeners out there, what brought you to the insurance industry in the first place? Curious… and, maybe even in particular, what brought you to Hickok & Boardman?

Matt: Sure. You know, to be very honest, I never set out to be in the insurance industry. What I did set out to be was… I wanted a career where I really could control my day-to-day activities along with controlling the income I made. I never wanted to be in a situation where someone else was dictating what I could potentially make. And being stuck every year looking at a cost-of-living increase, or you know a 5% increase. Though that’s completely fine, it was something that, knowing myself, I wanted be having a little bit more control. So, with that said, I was actually at a career fair at my university, Fairfield University in Connecticut, I met and ended up getting an interview with Sun Life Financial out of Boston. And, from there, I didn’t know much about it. They are an employee benefits insurance carrier. And I was lucky enough to get a job offer and start immediately after graduation and kind of got into insurance that way.

3:26

Ryan: Nice, nice. And then you eventually made the switch to the agency side with Hickok & Boardman and now you’re doing property and casualty commercial insurance.

3:35

Matt: Yeah, that’s correct. About 4 and a half years of being on the carrier side, I was approached by Hickok & Boardman – which was perfect timing. I was looking to make a change. I was born and raised in South Burlington, Vermont, and Hickok & Boardman is obviously… our main office is here in Burlington – and I was looking for the opportunity to get back home. Be closer to family, to friends, as well as the mountains in the wintertime for skiing. So, I jumped on the opportunity, and here I am close to 14 years later and honestly loving every single bit of it. Every year gets better and better. And It was the best decision I’ve made professionally to get in this industry and, frankly, to get on the agency side.

Ryan: Yeah. No that’s… I remember you giving me that advice when I was seriously considering this position, too. It’s kind of a… It’s kinda like jumping off a cliff when going into a sales role in the insurance industry. Particularly commercial insurance – P&C right – there’s just a lot of learning. There’s a huge learning curve, huge barrier to entry, and, as we were talking before the episode here, there’s really like a 3-5 year barrier to entry before you start rocking and rolling. And so, I’m curious what was your first 3 years like at Hickok & Boardman?

5:10

Matt: Well, it’s exactly kind of – there is huge barrier of entry into this industry. And as an industry I think we’re trying to get better with that, and trying to bring in younger people, and kinda trying to introduce them to the industry, because the career opportunities, whether on the agency side or on the carrier side, are fantastic. That said, the first three years… first three-four years at Hickok & Boardman were wonderful in terms of the mentors and the training they provided, but at the end of the day, the positive and the negative about being an agent and being in sales is that ultimately, you have to rely on yourself to get the job done. Which is something I truly love. It’s kind of my make up.

But those first 3-4 years are difficult. You are learning the business while also trying to meet new businesses and convince them to give an opportunity to look at their insurance. And to, frankly, break long-term relationships that they have with their current agency. And you know what’s very interesting is that Vermont, for being how small we are, and you could say, really, upper New England and upper New York, is that we are small, but there is an extreme amount of talent for insurance professionals in this area. And so, it doesn’t come easy. And it took a number of years of, frankly, just grinding it out, and doing the hard work in terms of prospecting, meeting with people, networking, to get the opportunities to, at first fail, but then show that you are a person that’s going to stick with it. So that, when you do call them the next year or the year after, you are going to get that opportunity to win the business and break those relationships.

And so, I would say it’s a lot of failure, but when you do have a win, it’s fantastic. And credit to Hickok & Boardman and to our senior partners for really putting in the time, effort, and the capital to provide the training as well as mentorship to get myself, back a number of years ago, through those tough 3 to 4 years. But then also providing that mentorship and that open-door attitude of always being there to either pick us up or celebrate the wins.

So, that really is kind of the first few years of – seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and knowing that if you stick with it, you are going to be successful. As long as you have a routine, and you work hard, it will work out for you.

8:02

Ryan: Yeah, that’s been my experience and, like you said, it’s a lot of fun when you finally realize… when you realize you are in charge of your own destiny. And at the end of the day, you got your team, and you want your whole team to be successful with you and it’s fun. It’s fun even when you have some failures. It’s fun because there’s just constant learning and there’s a lot of technical expertise that you’ll never know all of it. There’s always something new to learn.

Matt: That’s absolutely correct and that’s kind of one of the reasons why the insurance industry is such a great industry. You are always constantly learning. You’re never gonna know everything. To this day, I’ve been in it for close to 14 years, but there is a ton of information I am still learning daily. And that’s what keeps it interesting. And, frankly, I think that’s what also diversifies our agency from some competition is that the dedication to education and knowing that our clients are relying on us to know what is the latest and greatest. And to make sure we’re educated in our profession. That’s what we’re hiring for. We’re not just agents. We’re really insurance consultants and risk management consultants. And education is a huge part of that. So, as an agency we really lay out a lot of capital – it’s one of our biggest line items – for agency education. And that’s what makes it fun. You don’t want to be stale. You get burnt out. And that certainly is not the case for our agency. And I can speak for myself – it’s fun to come into work and learn something new every day.

9:55

Ryan: Yeah. Did you have any – before we move onto the next section of today’s episode – did you have any fun or maybe embarrassing stories you’d be willing to share from the – anything interesting that happened to you when you were trying to grind it out those first few years?

Matt: Yeah – I have… I think I can… One that always kind of pops into mind that’s kinda my go-to story: It was probably my third or fourth year and I was at a new prospect meeting that was in Rural Vermont – let’s say. And at that point in time, it was probably late spring, which for everyone in Vermont or North Kingdom area, will know it’s mud season.  And that point in time I was still very young and in my 20s, and I looked much younger than that. So, I always made sure I had a suit and tie on just to make myself look a little bit older and more professional. And unfortunately, I looked up the prospect’s address on their website, assuming their address would be correct on their website. It, unfortunately, was the prospect’s home address. And so, I am in the middle of nowhere with no cell service in mud season – so I get out of my vehicle, and I’m kinda shaking my head because I’m in a long dirt driveway, there’s a farmhouse and kind of an abandoned farm.

So, I get out and a couple of chickens were walking around. And I’m like “There’s no way this is the place…” But I go and knock on the front door and there’s no answer. I go around the back – and it’s kind of a mud room – the door is open, so I go in there. And, mind you, I am in a full suit, white shirt, unfortunately a pink tie at the time. And I knock on the back to the kitchen – and it’s slightly ajar – and I start walking in. And then I remember we’re in rural Vermont. And I am in a suit, with a tie, and I am going to stick out like a sore thumb here. And obviously, this is not the area of the business. So, it clicks to me that I am in the wrong place and I am now breaking and entering into someone’s house.

So, that said, I skedaddle out of there as I jump into my trunk. Unfortunately, it was cold, so my vehicle was warm, all of the chickens from the chicken coop had now fled the chicken coop and are now all underneath my truck being warm. And we’re talking about probably 40 or 50 of these chickens. And then they see me, and they all start squawking and I can’t get them out from underneath my truck. Now I’m slipping in mud everywhere and then the chickens start – and for some reason they’re attack chickens – and start pecking at me at my suit pants. So, long story short, I got out of there without running over any chickens. I ended up calling the insured when I got cell service and I don’t think I’ve ever heard a guy laugh so hard – saying that that was his personal house. I ended up meeting him at his place of business and we actually eventually wrote the insurance for him. But yes, that probably goes down as… a story I will always remember.

13:26

Ryan: That’s fantastic. I don’t have anything like that, Matt – you take the record for that, too. But that’s fantastic. That’s fantastic. But, uh, quickly here, as we kind of move to the main piece of this podcast that I wanted to share with the listeners. A big piece of our agency’s differentiators is our Risk Management and Loss Prevention team. They’re on staff, they’re part of our team, they’re part of our payroll, they’re part of the agency. Big differentiator for us and sometimes it’s hard to convey to potential business owners, or prospects, or even current clients, why that’s such a big deal. And I wanted you to have the opportunity to share a story or two from your own personal experience of how their involvement made a game changing difference for a business.

14:28

Matt: Sure, um. You’re exactly right. Value-added services and the amount of effort as well as capital and time and money, and also getting the right people in place to provide those type of risk management value-added services to clients is absolutely critical. The agency, about 20 years ago, decided to make a switch from just selling insurance and living and dying by premium, but really seeing where the market is going and saying, “We need to provide value to our clients when they aren’t having a claim.” So, that we can help them organically become a better risk so that we can drive their premiums down, make them a safer place to work, so that they then can get out of that rat race of not knowing what their renewal is going to do and being dependent upon what the market is. And so, what we try to do with these services and, as well as our people, is to bring our clients out of that rat race. And to really make them be able to dictate to the insurance market and carriers how they’re looked upon.

And so, one of the stories I think comes to mind, is a larger client of mine – they’ve been a client now for probably about close to 10 years or so – they are a very large client, very extensive exposure. And with that came a lot of different things to consider. And so, from the get-go, their main concern was controlling their cost of workers compensation, their fluctuating E-Mod. And what basically happens in terms of if that experience mod goes above a 1 – how that effects them when bidding a job and what that precludes them from being able to bid on. And then also, too, controlling those costs, and also an understanding of how to control the costs.

16:40

So with that said, I brought in one of our head risk management specialists, Jen Barrett, who is licensed throughout New England and New York as a work comp risk manager. And one of the main things we do with our clients right away is ask, take a review of their loss history as well a review of their past years’ experience mods. What we do there is make sure that they’re accurate. Or, that they’re being paid attention to, so that open claims are closed or put on a critical path to closure. But then also, too, make sure their e-mod is promulgated correctly. What we found throughout the process was that there was a mistake, by the insurance carrier, in sending information to NCCI – who promulgates the experience mod – was resulted in an 8 point mistake in the e-mod. And at the time, the prospect had a 1.07 e-mod. And the 8 points would get them below a one which was critical for this prospect because there were jobs that they weren’t able to bid on if their experience mod was a 1 or above. With this work done by Jen and our team, we were able to get the carrier to agree that they did make a mistake and to re-submit the unit stack cards to NCCI to make that correction. Therefore, resulting in the decrease to a .99,  and also resulting in a return premium of $80,000.

Ryan: Boom.

18:18

Matt: Boom! So, that was all as not the agent. That was done in the period up until the renewal date. And so were able to do all of that, they gave us an authorization letter to work with the claims team at the carrier at the time. Once we found that mistake and once we were able to do that, they signed over the Broker of Record letters the next day. We earned their business through going through the details, as well as showing them what our value-added services – specifically our risk management team – was able to do. Along with that, we were able to build what we called the FOCUS plan. And we build out throughout the course of the year what their concerns were in terms of safety and risk management. Areas of concern where they had some leading caught loss causes. And so, what I mean by that is that we reviewed the loss history and were able to do some analysis in terms of where their losses were coming from. This insured has 2 shifts, so were able to find that it was the 2^nd shift, specifically in one specific division – we were able to drill down that that division did not have a manager for a while. And so, people were not doing really what they were supposed to be doing in terms of safe lifting practices. So, were able to drill down on that and actually implement some safety measures to stop those claims from happening or at least reduce those number of claims.

That client, as I mentioned, we started out and they were a 1.07, and we got it down to a .99 experience mod. They are now at .63 experience mod. And that’s through a lot of hard work by them, but also a commitment by them to work with us, as well as the carrier, to identify the issues and to organically engineer them out. And so, we’ve been able to do that with this client – and to their credit – it comes from ownership down. Ownership saw that workers comp was a huge expense for them, because of the industry and there’s not a lot of carriers that’ll write their type of insurance. So, they really said they wanted to be the best of the best, and, they have. So, it’s been a success story, it’s been a long-term client. And, frankly, were able to get the BOR on it but we weren’t gonna’ be low with this. And there has been competition over the years where we have, or renewals have not been the lowest premium-wise but we’ve never lost the account because of the work we do throughout the course of the year in keeping them safe, as well as keeping them on the path to have them control their costs.

So that’s been – I would say that’s probably one of the better success stories showing our value-added services.

21:19

Ryan: That’s awesome, man. Thanks for sharing that because I think there’s countless stories just like across our agency. But that one in particular is just a great example because it tells the whole picture of what we’re trying to do, right? You solved that one problem in the moment, but then because the client had buy-in from the top-down throughout the whole organization, you can really make a huge difference. And for the listeners who maybe aren’t as familiar with what that really meant for lowering your e-mod that much – I mean it’s a direct credit onto the policy. So, 0.80 e-mod is 0.20 – 20 percent lower than the 1-0 – which is a direct 20 percent discount. So, that’s a big swing in the overall outlook of their insurance cost.

22:14

Matt: Yeah, it was huge impact on their insurance costs and also impact on their business because they were now able to bid on jobs that they couldn’t have because their experience mod was above a one. And now because that first year we were able to get them below a one, it opened up a bunch of business opportunities that they were precluded from trying to get. And so, I was never able to quantify with them if they were able to get any of those jobs that they were previously precluded from bidding on, but, you know, to be selfish, I would say, yeah, we allowed them, through the hard work of bidding on things, they were hopefully able to secure some new bids because of the work we did on the experience mod.

Ryan: That’s awesome. Well, Matt, this has been a great conversation, man. Thank you for joining us. And I’m sure the listeners got a lot of benefit from hearing your story of coming into insurance but also learning a little bit more about that particular client. Any final words – I know I’m putting you on the spot a little bit – but any final sending messages about the industry, or about that story that you’d like to send to the listeners before we sign off here?

23:35

Matt:  Sure, I guess – definitely put on the spot here, Ryan – but I would say that the industry as a whole is a fantastic industry. And from the industry, we need to look a little more inward on how we market ourselves to the outside world. Because the opportunities afforded in this industry are very rare. And also, something that you can build a really nice career with in your home town, or an area that you wanna be in. Insurance allows you to do that, it allows you to really be in charge of what you wanna do. So, I would highly recommend it to anyone who’s considering it. It’s not easy, but it’s worth it. It’s worth the hard work and I would highly recommend anyone who’s thinking about it to take the first step and learn a little more about it.

Ryan: Awesome. Well, thanks again for joining us today, Matt. Really appreciate your time. For the listeners out there, thank you for sticking with us. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, or wherever it is you’re getting this podcast. And tune in for the next podcasts that are coming out – we’ve got a whole list in the line up for 2022 that we’re excited about sharing with you. Till next time, this is Got You Covered presented by Hickok & Boardman Insurance Group. Take care!